User talk:The RPG Gamer: Difference between revisions
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:IMDB isn’t really a reliable source so I’m not 100% sure as anyone can edit the site, for one example, for this show I watch on Nickelodeon, a bunch of different characters and cast members were added to a then-unreleased episode (one of which hadn’t appeared since Season 1, said character is the one used on my profile picture on Wikia/Fandom). None of them ended up appearing in the episode but yeah I could check it out and determine the legitimacy. [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 03:49, April 2, 2023 (UTC)
::I think it is a good idea to check if that source is reliable or not (and regardless of its legitimacy, do you still think the Monty Mole species has a chance to appear in the movie)? Also, [https://montymolefan.com/about-monty-mole here is the link to the website], so if you see any other errors please let me know. Some good news though is that I talked to the creator of the site, and they might improve it, so I hope that does eventually happen. I still don’t get why the creator was so insist on Major Burrows being a Monty Mole cause other people said it, the reason why crap like that is a misconception is because of people spreading misinformation of a certain topic and people thinking the misconception is the truth (and the Undergrunt species is the perfect example of this). Nintendo never made a single official connection between Major Burrows and Monty Moles, and Major Burrows is clearly the leader of an entirely separate unrelated mole species, so Major Burrows being a Monty Mole makes litterally no sense whatsoever. Anyways, what do you think of the site? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 04:21, April 2, 2023 (UTC)
::I just checked the site now, I think it’s incredibly silly how they claimed Major Burrows is 100% a Monty Mole and treats Mega Monty Mole as a generic Monty Mole, some sections are also incomplete and lack information such as the SM3DL section. I also find it mind boggling how they included every game (even a stack of ports) but they couldn’t include SM64DS despite Monty Moles having a role in that game as well (this might be silly but I do get triggered when others practically ignore SM64DS's existence all while treating FULL ON PORTS like they’re 100% games that are apart of the series despite SM64DS having more to offer than an average port and even getting it’s own Wikipedia page (something most ports/remakes don’t get)) but yeah hopefully he makes those improvements. Yeah that can be the case sometimes, when someone tells a lie or an assumption and repeats it over and over, people eventually start believing that lie/assumption as the truth (in some cases, even the messenger may believe it themselves). Major Burrows is definitely not the leader of the Monty Moles as he’s the leader of the Undergrunts (an unrelated species), I even saw some erroneous page (I think it was on deviant art where someone did a graph of all the enemies and their respective leaders and they put Major Burrows for the Monty Moles (despite that obviously being false and get this, for the Swooper, they put Antasma despite him being an entirely unrelated Bat species). [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 22:14, April 3, 2023 (UTC)
:::Yeah I don’t get why Super Mario 64 DS is treated lesser. Personally, I think that game is on a similar level to the Super Mario Advance tetralogy or Super Mario All-Stars, where it is still the same game, but with updated graphics and additional content or extra changes to make it stand on its own. Stuff like New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe and Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury (besides the Bowser’s Fury stuff) feel more like just glorified ports with a few extra things tacked onto it. I don’t get why something like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (which was barely any different from the original Wii U version until 2022) is treated more than a full on remake. Yeah, I do agree that the 3D Land sections is extremely unfinished, since it should at the very least note Morty Mole’s existence or something. I do hope that the person does eventually improve these sections to actually make them good. Also, the fact someone said Antasma was the leader of the Swoopers was extremely stupid, cause Antasma shares nothing with Swoopers whatsoever. Also, the stupidest thing about Major Burrows being called the Monty Mole leader is that we [[King Choropū|already technically have a Monty Mole leader]], even if it went unused (and this beta for Paper Mario: Sticker Star was likely developed at least a few years after Super Mario Galaxy released, so they likely knew Major Burrows was a completely separate mole species and instead made an actual Monty Mole king). Also, what do you think of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR3ePrcog10 this video] and what errors did this video have (I know one, but I will let you find out that one yourself). [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 22:37, April 3, 2023 (UTC)
:::I watched the video just now, one error I found was that it referred to the Bubba as a Boss Bass despite them being two separate species (hey, at least it doesn't make the error of claiming that the Mega Cheep Cheep is a Boss Bass). Another error I spotted was that Major Burrows was in the Monty Mole section even though he's clearly not a Monty Mole. Also, I noticed that the video took a whole stack of names from the Super Mario Wiki (some of which were from the NSMBU Prima Guide but hey, at least it didn't use names from the English Mario Portal (mostly because the video was uploaded before the EMP)). [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 01:10, April 4, 2023 (UTC)
::::I am surprised there wasn’t more errors, but the fact they put Major Burrows in the Monty Mole section is completely stupid (like if you wanted to showcase a powerful Monty Mole boss, show the one from Sunshine or Monty Tank, not a completely unrelated mole boss that looks or acts nothing like Monty Mole). Anyways, do you know any other really stupid Monty Mole species misconceptions like the Undergrunt one? Also, what do you think about the fact that the Presenters from the original Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga were treated the exact same as Monty Moles for years, and then the Monty Moles in the 3Ds remake were treated as a redesign of Presenter (despite Play Nintendo clearly calling the ones in the remake ad Monty Moles)? Also, since the Super Mario Bros. Movie is coming out soon, tell me how likely you think the Monty Mole species will appear in it (since they were not seen in any of the marketing for some reason)? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 04:41, April 4, 2023 (UTC)
:::::Anyways, since the Super Mario Bros. Movie likely has came out when I wrote this thing, does the movie have Monty Mole species in it? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 04:16, April 5, 2023 (UTC)
::::::I just watched the movie today, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the movie didn't have a single [[Monty Mole]] or [[Rocky Wrench]] in it. They weren't the only enemies to not be in the movie, [[Podoboo]]s didn't appear in the movie either (despite there being heaps of lava in the movie, not a single Podoboo was seen either), aside from [[King Boo]], no [[Boo]]s were seen in the movie, [[Fuzzy|Fuzzies]] didn't appear in the movie, unless I'm missing something I don't think [[Chain Chomp]]s did either. [[Swooper]]s weren't in the movie but rather the [[Bat (Super Mario Galaxy)|Bats]] from ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' [[Lakitu]]s, [[Buzzy Beetle]]s, [[Spike Top]]s, [[Wiggler]]s, [[Pokey]]s, [[Thwomp]]s, [[Scuttlebug]]s, [[Whomp]]s, [[Amp]]s, [[Broozer]]s, [[Fishing Boo]]s, [[Urchin]]s, [[Venus Fire Trap]]s, and more weren't in the movie. The enemies that did end up appearing were, [[Goomba]]s, [[Koopa Troopa]]s, [[Paratroopa]]s, [[Bob-omb]]s, [[Spiny|Spinies]], [[Piranha Plant]]s, [[Bat (Super Mario Galaxy)|Bats]], [[Shy Guy]]s, [[Snifit]]s, [[Dry Bones]], [[Bullet Bill]]s, [[Banzai Bill]]s, [[Biddybud]]s, [[Bramball]]s, [[Cheep Cheep]]s, [[Blooper]]s, [[Blooper Nanny|Blooper Nannies]], [[Baby Blooper]]s, a giant [[Maw-Ray]], [[King Bob-omb]], and [[King Boo]]. [[Yoshi]]s didn't really appear much either aside from a couple cameos but other than that, I actually really enjoyed the movie (maybe we will get the Monty Moles in a potential sequel). I agree with that, it's silly how people thought that Presenters were the exact same as Monty Moles, I mean they could've given them a separate page but nope (hell, this was before the remake, in the original, they hardly look like Monty Moles). I honestly don't get how we're the only ones that've seen that Play Nintendo confirmation. It really goes to show how oblivious some people are and that they don't do any research. Like they do the same with many guides where they never source it being completely oblivious of the source's presence. [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 11:15, April 7, 2023 (UTC)
:::::::I know Chain Chomps and Buzzy Beetles did appear in some of the marketing, but they must’ve had either an extremely minor role, or were not in the actual final movie. Yeah I knew the Monty Mole species was sadly not in the movie (like, was there really any cave or mountain area at all), and the fact that all those species couldn’t appear kind of feels lazy (like how can you have lots of lava but no Podoboos). There was only like four species in the entire movie that felt like obscure and interesting picks (Bramball, Biddybud, the Mario Galaxy Bats, and Maw-Ray), the rest just seems like the typical generic enemy affair with nothing interesting besides overusing Koopa Troopas, Goombas, Piranha Plants, and Shy Guys, rather than including a variety of species. I kind of felt like they really only did that just for marketing and laziness (hence why most of the references and species are generic or overused). The Mario movie had a lot of potential to be creative, yet they just chose the generic route (they could have even had obscure long lost enemies like Mega Mole or Blargg return). I am also confused on why King Boo is in the movie, but not any regular Boos (which is dumb cause Boo is a well known species), and from what I heard, King Boo (alongside King Bob-omb) don’t really do anything besides appearing because reference. The bats from Mario Galaxy are also extremely weird to put in the movie, since not only is it a species not even some Mario fans recognize, but it kind of breaks the continuity (cause it is implied that most Super Mario Galaxy enemies are completely different due to exclusively living in space or other far away regions, but the bats appearing instead of Swooper just makes no sense, it would be like if Undergrunts appeared in the movie instead of Monty Mole). Speaking of continuity, from what I saw, I am pretty sure this movie breaks a lot of the pre established continuity the Mario series had (if you want, you can list some examples). Also Yoshi being regulated to minor cameos and a post credits scene is kind of stupid, since Yoshi is literally one of the most recognizable Mario characters. I guess the positive is that this might mean the sequel will be like Super Mario World, which has a lot of potential, instead of just being scattered shot with random areas from the series. As for the Presenter stuff, I still don’t get how people for years thought Presenters were the exact same as Monty Mole (they were only referred to as just moles in the two English guidebooks). Obviously they were a variant of Monty Mole, but they weren’t the exact same (hell, they look way more like Mega Mole than Monty Mole). Also, I didn’t even know about the Play Nintendo thing until I just searched Monty Mole in Play Nintendo and found that massive lore drop lol (and due to most games by the Superstar Saga 3DS remake’s time not getting guidebooks, I think this might be our only confirmation. Hell, I could not even find a Japanese guidebook from what I researched). If you were wondering, the other Play Nintendo stuff on the site didn’t have as much Monty Mole species lore drops outside of that particular one for the Superstar Saga 3DS remake. I still don’t get why the Super Mario Wiki constantly treats unreliable sources like Mario Portal and even sometimes the English Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia (the latter they know is unreliable), yet they can’t look at Play Nintendo to find out that the "Presenters" in the 3DS remake of Superstar Saga are just regular Monty Moles that replaced them (similar to the generic enlarged Koopa Troopas replacing Ankoopas in the remake). The Monty Moles in the Superstar Saga remake aren’t even redesigns of Presenter like what the Super Mario Wiki treats them as (unlike Mawful Mole (and their metal variant) in the BIS 3DS remake, since both the original and remake of BIS had both regular Monty Moles (in the form of the Monty Bros.) and Mawful Moles in the exact same game, unlike Superstar Saga, where the original had an entirely new Monty Mole species, and the remake just had generic Monty Moles instead). Considering the Super Mario Wiki, it is very likely that they will just say that the "Presenters" in the 3DS remake being called Monty Mole is just an alternate name for them (like when they thought SMG Monty being incorrectly called a Rocky Wrench by the English Mario Portal was just an alternate name for them). [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 14:26, April 7, 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Does the Super Mario Bros. Movie contradict and retcon the preexisting Mario lore (and is it even canon or just an AU)? Also what about I said previously as well? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 22:03, April 10, 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::Sorry for the late reply, sure you could list some examples. Also, yeah, guidebooks have kind of been dying down in general over the past several years in fact, the ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]'' Prima Guide was the first Prima Guide since ''[[Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]'' in 2014 (so to think that Prima never released a new Mario guide in almost three years (despite a couple coverable games being released in between September 2014 and April 2017) is just crazy. I don't get how they couldn't've come to that conclusion, they know the Ankoopas and Gargantua Koopa Troopas are different yet they treat the 3DS Monty Moles as a mere redesign to Presenters. It's honestly ironic how they treat those as reliable sources now whilst ignoring several Prima Guides, Nintendo Power, in-game names (one was with ''[[Super Princess Peach]]'' with the [[Vibe Crystal]]s) and the aforementioned Play Nintendo as well. Yeah, the points you brought up were very valid however the Super Mario Wiki usually tends to twist logic and create some form of an inaccuracy. Also, yeah, King Boo and King Bob-omb mainly made a minor cameo in one key scene (which I won't spoil in case you haven't seen the movie) but yeah, them claiming that "Rocky Wrench" is an alternate name for [[Monty]] is incredibly stupid as it's obviously an error and not an official alt. name for the enemy. [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 12:54, April 12, 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::Yeah it makes no sense why the Monty Moles in the 3DS remake of Superstar Saga are treated like a redesign for Presenter on the Super Mario Wiki, meanwhile the enlarged Koopa Troopas in the same remake are considered different from Ankoopas. The reason why it is obvious that Mawful Mole had a redesign in the BIS remake and wasn’t just replaced was because they still had the green Fawful-like cap thing, and regular Monty Moles (in the form of the Monty Bros.) do appear in BIS. I am really not a fan of the Super Mario Bros. Movie, as it just feels kind of generic and basic and it overuses generic enemy species, has references for the sake of references with no substance, and contradicts stuff established in the games for no reason. Should we rant about all the continuity errors the Super Mario Bros. Movie made? Oh also, originally, the Super Mario Wiki said that Monty Mole Patches looked exactly like the Monty Mole jumping sprite seen in Super Mario World, but it literally doesn’t (especially since Monty Mole Patch uses the modern Monty Mole design), you agree? Also, wanna write more misconceptions in the misconception page? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 22:36, April 12, 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::::Also, you agree that [[https://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:List_of_implied_characters#Monty_Mole_king this decision made right here] was extremely stupid and it felt like the Super Mario Wiki team not reading the manga and making assumptions? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 05:18, April 14, 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Sure! I've got a couple ideas ready. Also, I honestly think that it's stupid that they treat the King Monty Mole as an implied character as he is literally shown in the comics. I honestly thought that page was reserved for characters we NEVER see but now they're using it for these reasons. They just get dumber and dumber, in fact I heard that if stuff like this keeps up, the SMW will get so unreliable that it will be viewed as a joke that people don't take seriously. [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 03:10, April 17, 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::::::The Monty Mole king wasn’t shown in the comics, just briefly mentioned once in Super Mario-kun volume 5, but I still get your point. This is likely just the Super Mario Wiki being stupid once again, like them merging Petey Piranha’s sludge balls with Glorpedos and the generic pushing platforms in Tick Tock Clock with Bomps (despite neither of them having any connections whatsoever). Yeah, it seems like if this crap keeps piling up, the wiki will just become more and more unreliable (since the Super Mario Wiki is literally hypocritically using names from the Mario Portal, which has a crap ton of errors, as well as the English Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia (which they know is unreliable) for no reason). Anyways, I was thinking of any other wikis that are bad due to strict and corrupt higher ups or low quality info (like the Super Mario Wiki)? Oh also, is the Super Mario Bros. Movie an AU, cause that movie has a crap ton of continuity errors and overall just feeling like the people didn’t know the story of Mario and instead just cramming in as many surface level references as possible (like why are Super Mario Galaxy elements here when Mario hasn’t even seen stuff like Lumas yet, and why are King Bob-mob and King Boo here if they do nothing but just further retcon established info and be in the background of a scene only for a reference and nothing else)? Sorry, I just absolutely loathe the Super Mario Bros. Movie (due to how generic and play it safe it is, as well as it having an incoherent plot, bad voice acting, forgettable humor, little enemy variety and overusing the same few species, cheap and shallow references only there to make the movie seem better than it actually is, ruining and retconning established Mario lore, everything feeling like an absolute slog of nothing but random crap happening for no reason just cause, among other problems I have with the movie), though I don’t mind if you enjoyed it, but I am wondering if you agreed or disagreed with any of my criticisms here? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 04:28, April 17, 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::Also, what is with Super Mario Galaxy and having more enemy misconceptions than any other Mario game (stuff like people saying the Undergrunts are species of Monty Mole, despite there being little to no evidence on that being true). Also what are the top five worst Mario Galaxy enemy misconceptions? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 15:50, April 22, 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Also, wanna help add more misconceptions soon? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 23:26, April 26, 2023 (UTC)
:Yeah I agree, like they recently renamed Prince Froggy to Froggy (which is actually a nickname and not his actual name, I remember it was renamed once before in early 2015, I ended up changing it back not long before the final ban but it seems as though they changed it back almost as if they can’t understand the concept between a full name, a nickname, and a new/old name). I do feel the movie could’ve added more enemies (although aside from that I enjoyed it), maybe we will see some more enemies in the sequel. That'd have to do with the Super Mario Wiki thinking everything is oddly connected for some reason. Like they claim Undergrunts and Monty Moles are connected despite no evidence suggesting this, the worst would have to be the Undergrunt/Monty Mole one that was mentioned, they claimed that the Spiders in the game are Scuttlebugs, oh oh and we can’t forget the Bats being Swoopers. Initially, they also had the Crabber page merged with the generic crab page as well (this is understandable as they were simply known as "Crabs" in the first game and the Crabber name debuted in SMG2). [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 23:09, April 30, 2023 (UTC)
== King Choropū ==
How do you feel about the fact that the Super Mario Wiki treated the King Choropū’s mention in volume 5 of Super Mario-kun as just them referring to Bowser, you think it is just another moment of Super Mario Wiki not understanding the manga? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 20:08, April 29, 2023 (UTC)
:I think that it is a dumb mistake on their part. Like they really don’t understand basic translations. This reminds me of the time where they thought that the Fire Chains mentioned in the MK8D Prima Guide were the Rings of Fire despite the fact that the guide was actually referring to the Firebars (with Fire Chain apparently being an alternate name for them). [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 23:09, April 30, 2023 (UTC)
::I feel like the point of the different Super Mario Galaxy enemies was likely due to them wanting to make different unrelated enemy species instead of just using the established ones (for example, the Undergrunts were likely made to be just a separate mole enemy specifically for the Mario Galaxy games with no real major connections to the Monty Mole species (unlike something like Ragumo, which is a confirmed relative to the Monty Mole species)). However, I feel like people on the internet, plus the wikis at the time really wanted to insist that these Mario Galaxy enemies were either related or the exact same as the established species (that is why that stupid Undergrunts being Monty Moles misconception exists). Yeah, it seems like the Super Mario Wiki loves merging stuff for the sake of it and trying to act like it is the exact same as an entirely separate thing (this is most prevalent with the Glorpedo and Bomp pages, since the wiki insists that these generic objects are the exact same as named enemies from the exact same game). Any other examples you can think of the Super Mario Wiki not understanding simple stuff like this (and the King Choropū stuff)? Also, I found this German Mario guide on Internet Archive that I think says Rocky Wrench is a Koopa? [https://archive.org/details/super-mario-power/page/14/mode/2up here is a link to it], just tell me what this guide is trying to say (you could use a translating app and copy the text down if you need to) and tell me what you think about it. [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 00:33, May 1, 2023 (UTC)
::Here's the translation, I'm not sure what it's trying to get at since the Rocky Wrenches literally have shells in the game (and the artwork): "Ever since he lost his shell, this koopa tortoise has been throwing wrenches. Bowser likes this!". Anyway, one example I can think of is that they still cite the English Mario Portal as a reliable source without realizing that about over half the names used on there were taken from their site (yet they immediately picked up the English Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia doing just that and disavowed them for it). I also hate how they literally favor the NSMBU Prima Guide above every other source despite it being the most dubious of the Prima Guides, heck, for the Lava Rocks, they use the "Volcanic Debris" name from the NSMB2 Prima Guide as their name despite that only being used in said guide, and them not resembling debris in most games (such as SM3DW, MKW, MK8, MK8D, etc. where they're called Lava Fireballs). For the MKSC section, they referred to them as Lava Boulders (as stated in the Prima Guide for that game) yet referred to them as "Volcanic Debris" in the MKW section (refusing to acknowledge the MKW Prima Guide) despite them never being referred to as such in said game, don't get me started on how they messed up all the large Cheep Cheep pages by merging each and every one with different types (the timeline for this goes way down) and the whole Spinner VS Ball 'n' Chain thing which I've mentioned hundreds of times, their renaming tendencies are no better, I could go over a whole list of examples. [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 03:11, May 1, 2023 (UTC)
:::Yeah those are some pretty bad examples of the Super Mario Wiki being really stupid. I also hate how hypocritical the Super Mario Wiki is for being so dumb to not realize how unreliable the Mario Portal is and prioritizing it over any other source (like remember what happened with Snuffit and Swoopin Stu). I also seen that the Super Mario Wiki is hypocritically having pages being named from the English Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia despite them knowing how unreliable that source is. I think one of the dumbest things that the Mario Wiki did for Mario Portak was treating stuff like it incorrectly calling the SMG Monty as Rocky Wrench as just an alternate name for them (despite them calling out the English Super Mario Encyclopedia for calling them a Monty Mole), and treating the Mario Portal reusing the Japanese names for enemies (mainly from Super Mario Land 2) as the 100% official English names for those enemies (despite the English Super Mario Encyclopedia doing the same thing and getting called out for it). Oh also, should the German Super Mario Power guide be sourced as an official piece of media that actually referred to Rocky Wrench as a turtle, and if so, mind putting it as a source in the Rocky Wrench and updating the list of misconceptions page to note this fact (though it is weird how the German Super Mario Power guide acted like Rocky Wrench lost their shell in SMB3, despite them not really losing their shell until New Super Mario Bros. Wii. There is also the minor continuity error on it saying that they started throwing wrenches AFTER they lost their shell, despite Rocky Wrenches throwing wrenches in most media that also depicts them with their shells. What do you think about that minor continuity error)? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 04:53, May 1, 2023 (UTC)
::::Mind helping add the Rocky Wrench being related to Koopas info from the German Super Mario Power guide to both the Rocky Wrench and Koopa pages? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 00:28, May 3, 2023 (UTC)
:::::Sure! I do think it is a strange error as at the time, they had Shells in all official media, unless the author of the guide somehow has psychic powers, I'm not sure. [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 23:47, May 3, 2023 (UTC)
::::::Maybe it was likely just a minor mistake that author made, but I am still pretty sure the book is still most likely reliable and canon (unlike the Mario Portal). Anyways, good luck with adding the Koopa info to the Rocky Wrench page. Also, what is your opinion on the Badniks from Sonic? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 00:06, May 4, 2023 (UTC)
== idk when i'll get around to continuing but ==
Hopefully soon I can resume getting this wiki up to speed again. I know it's designed after classic Super Mario Wiki, but if you think about it, this wiki has more in common with the MarioWiki on Fandom. :P [[User:Bawitdaba|Bawitdaba]] ([[User talk:Bawitdaba|talk]]) 13:57, May 5, 2023 (UTC)
:So hopefully you will be able to update these pages faster? Oh also, aren’t you going to get those Tower of Yikk screenshots soon? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 22:06, May 5, 2023 (UTC)
::I can't because DS emu not working, sorry [[User:Bawitdaba|Bawitdaba]] ([[User talk:Bawitdaba|talk]]) 22:48, May 5, 2023 (UTC)
:::Aw, okay. Also, anything I can do to help improve more Monty Mole species pages? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 23:04, May 5, 2023 (UTC)
::::I think you did pretty good thus far. [[User:Bawitdaba|Bawitdaba]] ([[User talk:Bawitdaba|talk]]) 23:37, May 5, 2023 (UTC)
:::::It'd be good as a combination of both. Yeah, I’ve been needing to ready some pages for a while now. [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 04:08, May 6, 2023 (UTC)
::::::Yeah I agree, also mind helping add the Super Mario Power source to the Rocky Wrench and Koopa page to source that Rocky Wrenches are related to Koopas? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 04:30, May 6, 2023 (UTC)
:::::::You agree that the Super Mario Bros. Movie is not canon (due to the many contradictions and lore it breaks, unlike the DiC cartoons and the manga)? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 22:05, May 11, 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry for the late reply, yeah sure! Also, I believe that the Super Mario Bros. Movie takes place in a separate universe to the Mario games not only with the contradictions to the lore but some of the personality differences (like for example Bowser is close to being a pure evil in the movie whereas in the games, he wasn't as extreme), the characters looking strikingly different, and more. For this wiki, I am in favor of creating separate pages for the movie incarnations of the characters (like how Mario Wikia has done it as well as the Heroes and Villains Wikis). [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 02:48, May 16, 2023 (UTC)
::::::::I agree with what you said, though I still think the movie incarnation characters can still share the same page. Also, mind helping with that German Super Mario Power guide Rocky Wrench source that said that they were related to Koopas? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 03:03, May 16, 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::Here is the [https://archive.org/details/super-mario-power/page/14/mode/2up link] to the source I was talking about. [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 03:38, May 16, 2023 (UTC)
== Misconception continuation ==
Wanna help continue the misconceptions page? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 21:09, May 23, 2023 (UTC)
:You agree that this wiki has not had any substantial edits as of recently (likely due to the mediocre-bad Mario products in recent times)? Also, this video [https://youtu.be/sciGTnUqU28 right here] at the 8:08 mark for some reason says that this random painting is meant to be a stylized picture of Monty Mole. Is this true or just a weird assumption this guy made? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 02:32, May 28, 2023 (UTC)
::That is fair to say, also looking at it now, the painting bears very little resemblance to a Monty Mole, also, sure! I'd be down for that, sorry if I haven't been as active here lately, I've been wrapped with other projects. [[User:The RPG Gamer|The RPG Gamer]] ([[User talk:The RPG Gamer|talk]]) 04:32, May 28, 2023 (UTC)
:::Yeah that is why I questioned it. If anything, it could also be a painting of a dog or something, as Monty Mole doesn’t even make any physical appearance in the movie so it would be weird if that one random painting in the real world was just a picture of a Monty Mole. Anyways, thanks for helping out with the wiki, do you mind also trying to add some extra stuff to the Monty Mole species pages as well? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 04:43, May 28, 2023 (UTC)
== New sorting method ==
Hello! I've sprung back into action here. If it's okay with you, I updated the style guide here to say that ''Mario'' franchise appearances are covered in History section (''Mario'' takes priority because this is first and foremost a ''Mario'' wiki) whilst the others go into their respective sections (''Yoshi'' appearances, ''Wario'' appearances, Crossover appearances, so forth). Check the [[Rex]], [[Goomba]], and [[1-Up Mushroom]] articles as an example. It just has really begun to bug me when people try to call it all ''Mario''.
I also gave [[Mario (franchise)#Related franchises and series|this section]] of the ''Mario'' franchise page a bit of an update, and you'll notice I said that ''Donkey Kong'' is "partnered" as ''Mario Bros.'' for Game & Watch is the real first game with ''Mario'' in the title, but ''Donkey Kong'' arcade game is his first starring role as protagonist. Alongside ''Donkey Kong'', you will also see ''The Legend of Zelda''. I feel incredibly proud of what I typed up, so I'll relay it here for you:
"The [[The Legend of Zelda (franchise)|''The Legend of Zelda'' franchise]] is closely related to the ''Mario'' franchise, although its relation is more subtle and different than with the ''Donkey Kong'' franchise. ''The Legend of Zelda'' began in 1987, with the release of the titular game of the [[The Legend of Zelda|same name]]. The game was developed concurrently alongside ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'', and since then, a mainline ''[[Super Mario (series)|Super Mario]]'' platforming game has often been developed concurrently with a ''[[The Legend of Zelda (series)|The Legend of Zelda]]'' game, such as ''[[Super Mario 64]]'' with ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time]]''. Sometimes, ''Mario'' concepts were originally intended for ''The Legend of Zelda'', such as [[Fire Bar]]s. ''Mario'' enemies such as [[Chain Chomp]]s, [[Bob-omb]]s, and [[Thwomp]]s have commonly appeared throughout the 2D ''The Legend of Zelda'' games. Furthermore, variants of ''Mario'' enemies exclusively appear in the ''The Legend of Zelda'' franchise, such as [[Manhandla]]s, a large [[Piranha Plant]] variant that debuted in the first ''The Legend of Zelda'', comparable to how [[Pouncer]]s, a Thwomp variant in ''[[Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3]]'', have not appeared outside the ''Wario'' games. Similarly, [[Octoomba]]s, a variant of ''The Legend of Zelda''{{'}}s [[Octorok]], have not appeared outside the ''Mario'' franchise. ''The Legend of Zelda'' can be considered one step away from being a ''Mario'' spinoff, and it even had an [[The Legend of Zelda (television)|animated television show]] included as part of ''[[The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!]]''."
''Yoshi'' games introduced many Shy Guys, such as [[Fly Guy]]s and [[Lantern Ghost]]s (latter hardly appears outside the ''Yoshi'' games), Pouncers only appear in the first ''Wario Land'', Manhandlas and similar are recurring throughout ''The Legend of Zelda'' but not Mario, Octoombas do not appear in ''Zelda'' games. Literally the same situation between the few. I'm not trying to convince, it's just that I'm just ranting because the similarities between ''Mario'' and ''The Legend of Zelda'' connections are just like ''Mario'' to ''Yoshi'' and ''Wario'' each. The ''Donkey Kong'' series and its continued ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' series also takes elements from ''Mario'' franchise at times.
Hope you like these improvements! [[User:Bawitdaba|Bawitdaba]] ([[User talk:Bawitdaba|talk]]) 18:52, October 23, 2023 (UTC)
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