Talk:List of misconceptions

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I know some of us here really don't like the Super Mario Wiki (or at least want its earlier incarnation to return, such as me wanting it to essentially be like it was in '07), but isn't calling them out in an article going a bit too far? Bawitdaba (talk) 11:37, October 16, 2022 (UTC)

Probably, you do make a good point. I'd say there might be some ways to reword it, I mainly used their name as that was where the misconception originated from, I do think a workaround is maybe we could change it to "some think" instead of "The Super Mario Wiki states" to make it seem less like we're calling out anyone in particular. Also, I don't mind the site itself, I mainly think the community has gotten corrupt over the years. HannahMontanaFan (talk) 12:21, October 16, 2022 (UTC)
I guess this does somewhat feel slightly offtopic, but I do remember doing my best to fight off the corruption (and that was part of why I questioned the existence of Mariopedia at first -- tho I always had understanding that it was based on the community's older days, which I myself wanted it to return to, like having the NES/SNES vibes of an older Mario fansite rather than this barebones vector design that been replacing it over the years). Just when I was about to do my ultimate move -- presenting good case for allowing a fraction (about 20%) of The Legend of Zelda on the wiki, citing the enemy families, even a Thwomp notable member literally being a boss in Oracle of Seasons, among several other things (like how several Zelda games were not "cameos" by their definition like with Captain Rainbow -- actual guest appearances) -- all this while I was trying to add more Smash Bros. coverage to strengthen it against people who were trying to gut the SSB coverage. However, I was permabanned (they used offsite issues as an excuse -- long story -- and it definitely was a backroom deal) because they didn't want that identity & are explicitly trying to make it just about Mario because "oh SmashWiki can handle this, NWiki can handle this, ZW can handle this". That most certainly is corruption right there. The lesson is that group mentality of consolidated communities is too powerful for one person to overcome. Bawitdaba (talk) 14:10, October 16, 2022 (UTC)
I can explain some of my stuff to. My first ban was noting an underground city from this poster because I thought it was notable that it mentioned an underground city where the Monty Mole species resided in. Of course I got temporarily banned for noting it. I also tried giving reasons on why Mega Monty Mole and big Monty Mole should be split, but their reasons were just... honestly I forgot, but it was said on the big Monty Mole talk page. I find it stupid since it is clear that big Monty Kole and Mega Monty Mole are different, as the former are just naturally occurring enlarged Monty Moles that appear as enemies, while the latter was a singular Monty Mole who Kamek enlarged and appears as a boss. Besides both being enlarged Monty Moles, they have absolutely nothing in common. Big Monty Mole even has different names in other languages to that of Mega Monty Mole, but the excuse was the names were "too generic" even though they are still different and further prove that they are separate. In some older arguments on the Rocky Wrench talk page, people discussed whether or not Rocky Wrench is a Monty Mole or turtle. But it seems like Rocky Wrench is both, since they were called both and likely were more mole-like New Super Mario Bros. Wii onwards sort of as a revival of the species (like when Galoomba and Chargin Chuck returned in Super Mario 3D World). I also found the irony how the wiki originally didn’t consider Rocky Wrench a Monty Mole species or relative, yet treated the Undergunts from Super Mario Galaxy like they were 100% meant to be Monty Mole species, despite the former having so much evidence on them being Monty Mole species, while the latter has absolutely no reliable or official sources that say that they are Monty Mole species. Speaking of the Undergrunt species, the last proposal I made before being banned was a proposal regarding if the Undergrunt species are related to Monty Moles or not and surprisingly a lot of people said yes. The reasons for the Undergrunt species being Monty Mole species were really vague at best since they said that they had so many similarities and look like Monty Moles. But they don’t though? Undergrunts have completely different attack patterns to that of Monty Moles and their designs look nothing like Monty Mole. I think the only reason why people say they are the same species is because of them being in the main series. Lastly, after my ban I found the wiki did some other stupid stuff like treating Mario Portal as a reliable source for names (which it isn’t), and saying that the sludge balls that Petey puked were the exact same as Glorpedos (which they aren’t). Anyways, did I miss any Monty Mole species stuff that the wiki got wrong? Sorry if this seemed a bit too harsh. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 16:08, October 16, 2022 (UTC)
Not going to lie, I'm still in favor of Mario Portal as a source (but I won't insist certain things are, like Rocky Wrench thing for Mario Galaxy) -- it is on an official website from Nintendo of Japan & mistakes do happen, like several in Prima guides, also officially licensed. And I've heard of Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour (I think that was it) that had two enemy names on the scoreboard. I'm also not happy about some articles like Moofish back to Mogyo (in response to the disagreement, I decided to port over my article to Nintendo Wiki with the Moofish name intact). Some would see Mariopedia as the primary resource whereas Nintendo Wiki as the secondary). But this isn't my wiki & I'm outnumbered 2 to 1 on this, so. Bawitdaba (talk) 16:34, October 16, 2022 (UTC)
The Japanese one is probably fine (like with the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia). It is just that English translation version that is unreliable and blatantly wrong in most aspects. It wasn’t just a couple of errors, there was just so much of them referring to enemies by the wrong names or calling them completely separate species (especially with the Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Land 2 sections). That same section with Mogyo being called Moofish had plenty of inconstant names like either referring to enemies as generic English names or just using the Japanese names. And with the Super Mario Galaxy section in particular, it tends to treat separate species as the exact same as other separate species (such as the aforementioned Monty being called Rocky Wrench and also Puffer Fish being called a Spiny Cheep Cheep). You should really discuss this with HannaMontanaFan to since he helped with discovering that the Mario Portal is illegitimate. Also any questions about the previous paragraph I written? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 17:04, October 16, 2022 (UTC)
That is corruption at it's finest, it seems as though it's gotten worse since I left. I remember trying to challenge them on what they were doing, (such as the Trivia removals, the compacting of the sections, as well as some of the page merges) for my ban, it was because I actually fixed up an image template (or something I kind of forgot) but I didn't realize that another user was doing that as their project. This in turn scored me a 90-day ban, during the ban, I then moved to Wikia (or Fandom as they're calling it now (back then it was still Wikia)) and about halfway through, I decided not to return after the ban expired because my experiences on there were mostly bad. And like you said MMLM, it has gotten less creditable as like merging Boss Bass and Big Bertha with Mega Cheep Cheep and the other large Cheep Cheeps with Cheep-Chomp for instance despite the clear differences. It was just as bad on the MarioBoards as well because I remember it being rather toxic at points there too. HannahMontanaFan (talk) 21:58, October 16, 2022 (UTC)
Another thing I forgot to mention was that I made a page for the Golden Monty Moles from Mario Party 6 that got deleted because it was just like golden Ukiki. But the Golden Monty Moles have a capitalized name in the in-game description for Mole-It! so they are clearly not just standard Monty Moles. It is like having the New Super Mario Bros. 2 golden enemies not having a page, I don’t know why Golden Monty Mole couldn’t have a page. Also HM Fan, do you mind telling Baw more about why the English Mario Portal source is illegitimate? You can use examples from all the sections from the English Mario Portal website (like the Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Land 2 sections, but other sections work to) if you need to. Also do you mind making a section on this page talking about the jellyfish enemies from Super Mario Galaxy (though mind listing the sources to like what I did for the Presenter snd Glorpedo sections)? Last question, why did you name the chairs from Super Mario 64 as killer chairs? I thought their name was just chair. MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:23, October 16, 2022 (UTC)
True, as for your questions, sure. I will explain a bit further on why it's illegitimate, also, yes I will add a section on the Preying Mantas and Mechakoopas in SMG. I will also add a section for how the Spoings and Spanglers were mistaken for Scuttlebugs and the Bats were mistaken for Swoopers. Also, yes I will add sources for those. The name "Killer Chair" was from one of the guides as well as Nintendo Power, it was also the original name used on the SMW as seen here. One page of the players guide for SM64 however named them "Flying Chairs". HannahMontanaFan (talk) 10:50, October 17, 2022 (UTC)
Oh ok cool, if you ever make a page for the chair from Super Mario 64, mind having the sources for the names (oh and are you fine just linking the sources that do call them killer chairs with the sentences that say it? The same can go for the SMG jellyfish to)? Also unlike the Undergrunts and most other Mario Galaxy enemies, the bats in Super Mario Galaxy do share a similar Japanese name to that of Swoopers which could possibly mean that they are relatives (though it is still really unlikely on them being the exact same and they look more like a Donkey Kong enemy rather than a species of Swooper in my opinion). Were there ever any other mole enemies from the Mario series confirmed to be Monty Mole species or relatives (like Ragumo)? Anyways, you can also feel free to explain why the Mario Portal is illegitimate in the next paragraph. Oh and for the chair page, should it just be called chair with the killer chair and flying chair names being listed as nicknames? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 12:45, October 17, 2022 (UTC)
@HannahMontanaFan Also you agree that there are plenty of Super Mario Galaxy enemies that were confused for other species (another one that can be added to this page could be the Puffer Fish which is confused for Spiny Cheep Cheep)? Which one of these cases of a Mario Galaxy enemy being confused for an entirely separate species is the worst one for you? Personally I think it is the Undergrunts being confused for Monty Moles/SMG Monty being confused for Rocky Wrench since that species has barely anything in common with the Monty Mole species and yet for a long time people kept calling them Monty Mole species (even to this day in a few cases). Also isn’t the Turtle Tribe described in some Japanese manuals basically just another name flr the Koopa Troop? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 21:56, October 17, 2022 (UTC)
Yes I do agree with that, (another example being how the Bonefins were confused for Fishbones), as for the worst, I'd say probably the one you just mentioned because unlike the Scuttlebugs and Swoopers which have at lest a few similarities to the Spoings/Spanglers and the Bats respectively, the Undergrunts and Montys have no similarities to the Monty Moles and Rocky Wrenches respectively apart from them all merely being Moles but that can only go so far (like next are we going to say that the Mole Guards and Mole Miners from Donkey Kong Country Returns are related to Monty Moles as well despite being extremely different). Also, the Turtle Tribe was the name for the Koopa Troop in the earlier games (such as Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. 3, most games now have it as Koopa Troop. HannahMontanaFan (talk) 22:17, October 17, 2022 (UTC)
Should the Turtle Tribe thing be considered a misconception since I think some people think it was the Japanese name for the Koopa species? Also, Monty does have a similar attack pattern to Rocky Wrench, but they have nothing else in common to the Monty Mole species besides that. Some people also say the Undergrunt species look like classic renditions of Monty Moles (mainly the Super Mario World design), but honestly they just look more like giant rats more than Monty Mole species. Anyways, you cool with adding some more misconceptions for wrong Super Mario Galaxy enemy connections? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 22:29, October 17, 2022 (UTC)
Just made a new section on the Turtle Tribe! :D HannahMontanaFan (talk) 23:18, October 19, 2022 (UTC)
Cool, so will the incorrect Mario Galaxy enemy connections be next? Also I asked some questions on your talk page so do you mind checking those out to? MontyMoleLoreMaster (talk) 23:20, October 19, 2022 (UTC)